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Get A Load Of This
Get A Load Of This
2: How Labor Shortages are Changing the Construction Industries' Stance on Technology
Over the course of this season, we are covering some of the challenges the industry is up against and the creative ways people across the country are solving those challenges.
Jason Waddell is a General Manager in the mining and aggregates industry with a wealth of knowledge. He's worked for several large companies and worked his way up from his start in the industry as a general laborer to his position today as a GM.
Jason joins us today to talk about one of the topics on everyone's mind - labor shortages. He's seen this challenge first-hand and is able to give his views on what it will take to draw new talent into the industry - including leveraging newer technology.
So I've been really excited for today's episode. We're joined today by Jason Waddell. He has a ton of experience in the industry and he's taken on many roles over the years and worked for a few very well-regarded and very different companies. It's clear that he has only gotten more passionate about the industry through his experiences. And he was kind enough to share some of his wisdom with us today. As with every episode this season, we are taking on some of the challenges facing the construction industry today and looking at ways to overcome them. In this episode, we touch on the labor challenges, asset utilization, and even how Jason feels about some of the technology coming out. Now, Jason's one of those rare people that does whatever he can to educate and better himself all with the goal of furthering the industry. We're excited to be able to bring you this conversation. So without any further delay let's get started. All right. So welcome to the podcast, Jason, it's an absolute pleasure to have you, I'm wondering if you can give a little bit of a, a background about how you came into the construction industry and your career thus far.
Speaker 2:Sure. Thank you, Elizabeth. Absolute honor to be here. Uh, I don't want to tell the date that I started, uh, cause it it's the time has passed pretty quickly. Uh, but I got into the aggregates industry, uh, like a lot of people, I try to do too many things too early, uh, try to be a student athlete. And the funny thing about the college I went to, they wanted you to put a same level of emphasis on the student side as the athlete side. And unfortunately that, yeah, unfortunately that led me to not needing a job. And I started, uh, like a lot of people. I started the general labor at a rock 40 in north Georgia for a company of Martin Marietta, uh, over the last 20 years, that role has grown, uh, up until what's recently been the GM position for StonePoint material, which was acquired by our Cosa aggregates in April of this year. So, uh, I've, I've been able to through a lot of different career paths, uh, uh, early in your age, do you think that your career growth is going to be linear? Uh, it is not. There's a lot of lefts and rights, but uh, mostly aggregates related with some asphalt, but it's been a great 20 years and, uh, I've, I've enjoyed the ride so far.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, we love having you in the industry and we love having you on the podcast to be able to share, you know, you dropped the number, not me, but 20 years of experience, um, in the industry with our listeners. Um, as we look ahead, you know, now is, is kind of a time period where people are planning for 20, 22 or they're replanting for 2022. Um, and I'm curious, you know, as that GM mentality, what are the top things that you're thinking about for next year and, and are those different than they would have been a year ago or two years ago?
Speaker 2:Sure. I think when we think broadly, um, obviously oftentimes we get stuck thinking about our tree in the forest, but when I think broadly, I think the[inaudible], which I think you had Michelle Stanley on for episode two from NSF, I think that's something that's on the forefront and has been, we'd like to see longer term infrastructure spending or funding at the federal level and the state level. So that way we could kind of plan longterm. So part of my role at the company in the industry is getting out and communicating that, right? We'd like to have a long-term planning as it relates to more of a micro level. I think there is a job's element there, right? There's a labor constraint issue we're trying to get through. And then we're trying to, we're trying to stay in front of that. We're trying to retain people and grow people. So they want to be a part of what we're trying to build. And I think those two things stay on the forefront, right? Until there's some kind of reconciliation or some kind of resolution. The other part of it, I think locally is we're trying to be good stewards of the industry, right? How do we stay on top of that? And that's the piece, I guess I would say from an industry perspective, we're doing a lot better. We're you're, uh, I believe you had Aaron wit on and he's doing a good job through social media of promoting our industry, the construction aggregates, asphalt ready mix. I think that's something that stays on the forefront that hasn't always been there. Um, a lot of times we hit back in the dark corners and just want to do our business and be left alone. And right now we're trying to get out in front of people and show people that it's awesome to do what we do, whether it's construction, asphalt, Agra, or ready-mix. And so, uh, those things, those things stay in the forefront, but people, uh, people are there all the time. I mean, it doesn't matter if it's today, next week, next year, you're always trying to plan to, uh, to grow your people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's a great point that you make. And I think the labor shortages have been something that's on everyone's mind. I can barely get through a conversation with anybody involved in the industry without hearing that as one of the top concerns. Um, there's a lot of articles out there right now, too, that are talking about ways that you can combat the labor shortage. And a lot of that is, you know, buzz-worthy attention grabbing kind of stuff. Um, but I did see an article that equipment world had put out back in September and some of the things that they were talking about make a ton of sense. It's, you know, recruiting that next generation. It's thinking about the ways that we can reintroduce the trades at an earlier age in high school programs. It's like you said, changing the perception of what it means to be in the construction industry. Um, in addition to those things, can you think of, of anything else that that might be key to helping close the gap or relieve some of the pressure from the labor shortages, whether it's something you're doing now or it's, it's something that's, you know, been in the back of your mind as a tactic to try.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We're, we're playing catch-up from the great recession and that's what, what we want to call it. I think a lot of investing in our current staff and investing in future staff got put on hold because everybody was looking at ways to cut costs, keep the people that they had on their, on their roster intact. Um, and then you touched on it with the, the trades in high school. Uh, we we've got to get out and make a impact and show people that somebody like myself, a general laborer started can grow into something else. And, and we're, we're starting to get better at it, but there's other disciplines that we could bring people in HR engineering, marketing sales. I mean, it's not just boots on the ground all the time, but that, that is a big component of what we do. Um, the other thing is I think making technology or allowing technology to make our industry cool. Right. I think you're starting to see companies. Um, and there's some local ones, I guess I want to be careful not say names. I don't want to offend the people that aren't doing it, but, uh, using simulators and giving people the real world experience, uh, that you're seeing either through academies or universities in in-house company, XYZ company university, I think we need to do that. We just get, sometimes I feel we get lost in the fact that we've got to control costs and that's an expense, right? And it may not always have the return that other projects have, but I think we got to make it cool again, right? Like I don't subscribe to the generations XYZ or whatever, or lazy or anything. I don't think we've connected the way we need to connect with them. I still believe in the optimism of society that people want to have no why right. When they want to, why their purpose is. And we just haven't, we're just coming out of the doldrums and we just haven't related to enough people to connect and say why I would say being an aggregates person that we could, we connect society and civilization through projects, we enhance public safety. I think we do a great thing, a great things. And we have some of the greatest people doing these things, which is like, say we're playing catch up. I would say in a lot of ways to get that message out
Speaker 1:Well. And I think it's interesting, you know, that point about technology that you bring up. So many of that next generation of the construction industry are so used to technology. They've had it in every class at their schools. They have, you know, games on their phone. Like I have a colleague who, you know, has like a three-year-old, that's playing like a coding app and I'm like, good for you. I don't know how the three old is managing that. But we, we have all of these new ways that people are interacting both with like consumer goods and commercial businesses. And, you know, that could be a bridge to kind of people where they're at. And maybe they didn't get that introduction to the trades in high school, but they have an interest. They want to make an impact and they can see that there's an option for them to do that here, but the way in which they do that they maybe they don't know all of those old school tools, but they know some of the new school tools. And that could be a way to kind of connect the two worlds while still keeping the industry invigorated.
Speaker 2:I was, I mean, so I was speaking to somebody that's kind of in my age group yesterday, just, uh, I think I was getting my oil changed in my truck and they asked me what this lamps, what was the stuff underneath the truck? So this is limestone. I work in the mining industry and they said, what do we mind here? And there's rock quarries, there's five or six rock boards right around. And I just, I thought, wow, okay. So not only are we not getting out and talking about the industry enough, uh, because there's, there's not just young people of any particular generation that don't know it's, it's people in my age group, there's older folks, you know, the question, the comment was, what do we mind? And you're like, wow, man. Uh, okay, well, you know, give me a couple of minutes. I'll, I'll start to share that with you. So I think people are doing better, but, uh, as you mentioned, there's, there's, uh, there's the generation X and some others that have come along with technology while still doing some of the, the, the skilled craftsmen jobs. I think that combination is pretty neat, uh, to see, and that's, that's only going to, that's only going to grow. They're only going to grow in their careers and they're going to be in leadership positions. So I think it's coming, we're just, we've always been a little behind in my opinion then, you know, other industries, but I think, I think it's just a matter of time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:One of the other things that I know, you know, we have a couple of mutual contacts and a little birdie told me that you have also acted, you know, as a person to person, as a mentor for some people in the industry and also have been mentored by others. Is there a component of that mentorship here that can kind of help make people feel comfortable where they're at at whatever point that is in their career, but also help them see the avenues, as you said, it's not a linear path they're in construction, help them see the opportunities that could be before them help them explore new interests or new areas of the business that maybe they weren't even aware of.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So once again, I think we're progressing right in a lot of ways and mentoring and used to be coaching was kind of a check the box thing. Like you had your coaching discussion this year and usually came around your performance evaluation time. Um, I think it's starting to shift. You've got some excellent industry stewards right now that are coaching and developing people because they want to, and in a lot of cases there, it's not only people that are direct reports to them. It's just people that work in other companies sharing that story. Uh, when, when there's a sense of frustration, whether you get boxed in through corporate America, or you just don't think you're progressing as fast as you want to. Um, but I think more people are becoming comfortable that their value in, or their knowledge that they have, doesn't it isn't just their value. And I think once you let go of that, uh, you're seeing, like I said, there's, you've had a couple of people on your podcast, by the way, they're excellent stewards of their industry and the industry as a whole, and they're, they're growing people, right. And it's new grow people either replace you so you can move out or move up. And I think you're starting to see that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. Um, I think that, you know, there's a ton of things that can, can help kind of impact that can kind of help move the conversation from, uh, taking a mandatory box for one of your direct reports into having, you know, honest, mutual conversations between people about an industry that they're passionate about. And some of the things like podcasts and things like that are helping get that message out at an even broader scale. So it's not something where, you know, maybe you have to meet one-to-one with somebody, but they can hear your story. They can hear how you think about things and, and the success that you've had and think about the ways that that can kind of help them in their, in their own life and in their own career. Um, so it's nice to see that blend of like, not only how can technology help me perform my job better, or, you know, get visibility into something that I didn't have visibility into, but also how can I amplify the message? How can I get the word out about how great of a place this is and the type of rewarding career that you can have?
Speaker 2:So th the other thing I think we're starting to see, and, uh, I could speak for middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky. We're getting out in front of high schools, right? We're um, even, uh, we have a university close to here, uh, MTSC middle Tennessee state university that has a great, uh, concrete management program and Dr. Heather Brown who's now IMI has done a fantastic job with that, but you get a lot of questions when you get in front of people, see the success you have now, right. They, how, how long did it take you to get there? And, and you just have to be honest, it wasn't easy. There was a, uh, and, and, and when I share people, share with people that I started as a general labor, uh, I sometimes you have to tell the whole story for them to believe you, but yeah, we, we all start somewhere. You get, when you meet somebody for the first time, you get a snippet of just them today, but you don't really know the whole background. And I'm very candid with them. It takes time. A lot of the times I wanted it to move quicker, right? Yeah. Um, I had, I had things to work on. There was good coaching and bad coaching, good mentoring and bad mentoring. And, and that happens. And then at the end of the day, uh, there's nothing I could say or do, I can only assist. I think of everything like a, uh, a bowling alley. I'm just the bumpers that are out to keep you from throwing the ball in the gutter, how you throw the ball and handle your career to knock down the pins. That's ultimately up to you, but I'm here to help. And I think we have more people, we have more people like that coming up, whether it's they're comfortable or, you know, maybe it's just some great coaching that each one of us got. I think you're starting to see it. And, um, it makes a big difference. People, people want to know why, what they do, what they do, and people want to know that somebody cares, right. And to move up in a lot of ways, you have to have a, a good mentor and you have to have a champion. And if you get both of those, um, because of the things that you bring to the table, skillset, personality, behavior, uh, and you can move mountains. It's pretty nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Not a bad spot to be in. Um, I think pivoting a little bit, um, kind of revisiting that technology side of things that you were talking about. Um, I think there's plenty of different types of technology that are now coming into the construction industry. There's that kind of like cool flashy type that you were talking about earlier, where it's like, Ooh, this is really exciting. And then there are some other ways, you know, that are maybe some more comfortable than others. There's some types of technology that are coming in and potentially looking at automating things that are done manually now and kind of causing some people concerned about what does this mean for my job, but there's also types of technology that are helping to optimize different areas of the business. And one of the things that, you know, every, you know, producer or construction company has is, is assets. And so whether that's people or that's equipment, there are finite amounts of assets that they have at their, you know, control. And I'm curious to see what your thoughts are. If you've got challenges, recruiting, hiring new people, getting that new blood in, how do you maximize the assets that you already have? Um, is there, you know, thought in the industry right now that Hey, Navy technology is a way that we can try to maximize the resources that we currently have today, even if it's not something that, you know, outright, you can see a direct ROI. Like I know for a fact, if I sign up for this, I'm going to save X amount of dollars and I can like budget and plan for that and have 100% accountability to it. But what about like those soft benefits of, Hey, I can bring this technology in and I think I can save, you know, my dispatcher two hours a week. I think I could save, you know, get more turns in for a driver and give them the work that they need to stay busy and with a full schedule, but also really help our bottom line. How do you think about that?
Speaker 2:So there's a couple of different avenues to pursue. I think we're in a fantastic time, as it relates to technology, it's adding something to an existing piece of equipment, if it's software related and it makes more efficiencies from a dispatch standpoint or just collecting data, um, where I think we're, I think it's out there and I think it's great to use. My, my only concern is I think right now we don't always understand the data, right? Like we don't know what we need or what technology could do for strengths or weaknesses, because in a lot of cases, the economy has been pretty strong and we're still maximizing shareholder value or earnings or margins, or however you want to look at it. I think, I think it's, it takes discipline to continually stay on the forefront of what's happening, whether it's inventory management, whether it's, uh, direct dispatch, whether it's, um, like I said, pieces of software or technology on equipment to make grading or paving more efficient. I think drone technology. I think all those things are on the table where I think we're at though. We just, sometimes some companies, we don't know what we don't know. Right. So, uh, do we know that the, that a certain software could get us more turns? Okay, what does that mean? Do we even produce, could we even produce to get those more turns out the gate? So I think we're in a fascinating time period for technology, and I think it's only going to get better. The other piece, I think, is unbelievably interesting that I think maybe we're just now getting into is the end-user experience. How can technology at an asphalt or aggregate or ready-mix plant? How can I, can, I can track my pizza on my phone.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes. I have talked about this before. This is one of my favorites.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I can track my pizza and I know when my Amazon package is going to come, but where's my rock or where's my, I think, I think, I think we're getting there. Um, and then as more people do it course, I think there's a cost benefit and the cost gets, will eventually get to where a point where more people do it. But yes, I do think we don't explore it enough. And then we usually just pick one thing at a time. Right. It's we have to be very careful. There's not a whole lot of layers right. Old time to handle this, but I think you pick one thing, whether it's, you know, some kind of dispatch opportunity, um, you pick another, if it's a plant automation, you pick another, if it's a equipment operation, but I will say this one thing I think to utilization for what I would call hard assets, your equipment. I think we're, we're ahead of that because we're exploring it's the lead time to get new equipment so far stretched out whether it's plant or mobile. Right. So I think we're already doing that as it relates to making the job easier. I think that's, as the issues arise from the local level, whether your office managers, your sales reps, your sales managers, or production managers, I think they have to be the ones to bring that up to, to me, because if I don't know, there's a problem. Well, you know, I got a hundred other things I'm managing. So I think we're, we're just, we're, we're embracing innovation more. And I, I think we're at a fantastic time. It's just, do we know, do we have the data to support any kind of technology and then how is it going to assist, right. Long-term or short-term. And long-term, I think we don't always have the data because we don't always know what to look for.
Speaker 1:Right. And I think it's a harder thing to track in general. Right. You know, when you're thinking about you saying, Hey, I really need my sales reps or my office manager come to come to me and tell me we're having a problem because I don't have a data point I can reference. Well, once they do, then how are you tracking that once you know about it, right. It's still a difficult thing to track, even if you know that there's concerns about it. Um, you know, how long is it taking somebody to process an invoice? How long is it? It's, it's hard to measure some of those things and have that on a spreadsheet that you can reference and say, oh yeah, we're wasting a ton of time. Here's what we should be doing, or here's what we need to look for. Um, but I think that's a great point. And I think as more technology becomes available and the more curious people get about different areas of their business and the more they optimize certain facets, like you said, start with one area, pick one spot that, you know, you need to work on it and find a tool to help you there. As people start knocking some of that out, these other areas will become even more blaringly obvious of like, you know, when you, um, when you were like doing renovations to your house or something and you paint one wall and you're like, oh my God, that looks amazing. And then you turn and you're like, oh my God, why didn't I meet this other wall? It's sort of like that, where you see the like bright, new, shiny thing and what it can do for the business and you get people bought into it and then you like turn around and you're like, oh wait, we have this whole other area we haven't even looked at yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think the other piece of it is it's a pretty tight knit community, right? So if even if a VP of one operation has success or a publicly traded company has success, we need to get those successes out because we product by itself, especially in aggregate, there's not a whole lot of things that separate one core from the other. Right. But sometimes that stuff doesn't get out because it's a competitive advantage for one. And so you get caught up in that, but I think testimonials throughout the industry really kind of move the needle, uh, because there's a lot of mutual respect in our industry period. And, and I think that that helps. So if somebody has success and they talk about it, whether it's through a social media platform or just word of mouth, which I'm still a big fan of, um, then I think it starts to resonate. And then you go, oh man, Hey Mr. CEO, Mr. C, oh, oh, Hey, can we try this? You know, well, what's cost, well, they're having a lot of success, but here's the copy. I just think, I think there's that element as well. And you gotta be just like in anything, you've gotta be willing, willing to roll the dice a little bit. And the technology is out there. It's only getting better. It's, it's very exciting time.
Speaker 1:I agree with you. I'm kind of thinking along these lines, right? Some of the, some of the exciting things that can technology can bring some of the challenges that the industry is facing in addition to the labor shortage is there's also some other severe shortages that are happening. You know, I talked to people that are having a really hard time finding new dump trucks, finding parts for dump trucks. If they can't get a new dump truck, how can I fix this one? Um, all diff and that's not just with dump trucks, but it's with everything in the industry right now. Um, and it seems like there's kind of like putting a little bit of pressure when you think about those fleets and how do I manage those fleets and whether it's a construction company or it's an aggregate business that owns their own fleet of dump trucks, but also maybe works with hired hollers too. Um, there's, there's that like, this is an area that, from what I have gathered is not necessarily the largest maker for anybody, right? It's something that you do because you have to do, it's important to do it. It helps keep everything, you know, on track keeps you a little bit more in control, but they're expensive. They take a lot to maintain. They take a lot to, you know, get the operations down for, and with those other constraints that are happening now, it puts that much more pressure on that area of the business and maybe take something that was kind of a neutral item. Wasn't really costing us money. Wasn't really making us money. And now maybe pushing that into a danger zone of pay, is this actually losing the business money? And how do we think about that? Um, and it, it feels like there's a couple of different paths that I've come up with and I, you have far more experience than I would. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are, but the two that I've come up with are one that, you know, those people that are feeling like, oh man, we're now starting to see losses in this area. And I don't think we can sustain it may start to let go of some of those assets and rely more on hired hollers. Or if they're a construction company may try to push more on their supplier to deliver material rather than pick up material. Um, but it's also an opportunity where you say, okay, we're not losing money yet. We know we're up against challenges. We just need to double down on this and really make this a priority. Maybe we find a way to get more data points here. We bring in a technology solution, or we do something else to reinvigorate this area of the business and we decide to make it a differentiator for ourselves. Um, can you poke holes in my two theories or can you offer any other thoughts of where the industry might be headed?
Speaker 2:So that is a great question. And I, I can say being a part of three particular companies, one publicly traded one privately held at one private equity. They all have different viewpoints on either owning your own fleet because there's risks that are associated with that. And then you have to keep people, you know, in the seat there's repairs and maintenance RNM associated with that there's insurance. So there are, there has been times I've worked for companies that were more risk averse and they did not want to be in trucking one, one incident, one accident. It just ruined the whole, it had to do with their level of comfort of risk. Now I have also worked for another company that, uh, wanted to grow their fleet because they wanted to control, uh, they were fertile. So they wanted to control their in-house trucking. So you could, if you could control the rates and you could lower or raise it depending on what kind of jobs you need to get, um, but you could control the throughput either to asphalt or paving and construction. Right. Uh, and then I I've worked at another company that used, looked at it as a negative revenue situation. And what I mean from that is, uh, they had the, it was not a profit center, but also if you delivered it, you would, you know, if you use third party or in-house, you would pay your in-house trucking center, if it was third party, you would pay your truckers. So they would help you in the next week. But it may take you 30 to 60 days to collect on the total bill. Yep. So it's it, there is no one standard answer it has to do with the leadership and their commitment to how they see the vision going forward. I would tell you there's a finite pool of people willing to get in the seat and drive. We can buy the hard assets all day long. We can't get people in the seat. So I think there are platforms out there, uh, trucks being one of them that does enhance it, but it doesn't really grow the overall pool of trucks. And so I, I think we have to get people interested in driving and w you know, there's all kinds of different, I'm sure everybody's commented wages, making it cool, this, that, and the other, uh, and it makes it difficult if you do evening work, if you do DOD related work, it's, it's hard to get people to drive at night. So, uh, there is no, you have a bunch of great ideas. I think you're on par with the strategy, that piece of it is it really, it really goes to the CEO. CEO's willingness to accept the risk. And I think, uh, you know, there's a lot of different companies that view it differently. I do believe in, um, even ha having a good third party network, but I also, I'm a fan of having your own trucks, especially if your vertical GP control some pieces of it. But also I think it's whether it starts with 5, 8, 10, however it builds. I just think that's adding trucks to the overall market pool and so on. So I'm a, I'm a fan of it, but that's, sometimes those decisions are made above me. And once again, it all goes back to senior level leadership ability to, you know, work with the risk factor.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that, that makes total sense. And I think that your point is, so that's such a great point thinking about how different types of companies think about risk and, and who they're, they're ultimately responsible to, is it they're just responsible to their customers? Is it they're responsible to a board? Is it they're responsible to shareholders that that all makes a really big difference in how you think about how you're going to spend your money, what you're going to invest in, um, the areas of the business that you want to focus on and where you're liable and where there's that risk. So that was a great answer. I'm glad that you slightly confirmed, but also added in a whole, whole new layer onto my, onto my thinking. So I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:And I would say the vertical piece is where the biggest component of that comes into is, you know, is it aggregate ready-mix and, or asphalt, and then what's, you know, if it's asphalt as a paving and construction, and what do you want to control? And I think identifying those companies, uh, you know, you could kind of see their strategy, but, uh, yeah, buying equipment, uh, although it does have a lead time, isn't always the biggest, uh, trying to keep people in the best equipment to, uh, get the utilization and, and do what you want to do from a business, a strategic business initiative.
Speaker 1:Love it, love it. Um, all right. So we've been chatting for a little while now. I know we're running up against some time, so we are asking a couple of questions to all of our podcast guests this season. So I'd love to run through those with you. Um, the first one being right now, as you think about the biggest challenge that you're facing, um, whether you want to take that as you, as a person in the industry or the industry as a whole, what do you think that biggest challenge is that people are up against right now?
Speaker 2:Uh, I mean, I think you probably hear it a hundred percent of the time. It's the labor piece of it, and we touched on it at the beginning, but the second, the second piece of it is, and, you know, we've also covered it. I think we need to have a long term funding mechanism in place there's, uh, states that have done a state funding mechanism, but we still need some long-term funding with the IGA or whatever the case may be. So we could plan, right. We, we want to hire people. We want to buy equipment. We want to have large or small cap ex pro uh, projects that go through to enhance automation, technology, efficiency, optimization. Um, we want to do all that stuff there. There's no part of our industry that doesn't want to grow. Uh, personally, you know, I think it's the professional development. How, how can I continue to get professionally professional development so I can continue to coach and develop my team and it gets harder and harder to do when you have so many inputs coming at you that kind of falls back and you do the day-to-day putting out the fires or, you know, the praises. And, uh, I would say from a safety perspective, that's something that's always on the forefront to get better at. Uh, I think many companies have world-class safety, and yet we still see, you know, the fatal grams come across from Insha. I think we're at 27 folks this year that have been injured or are no longer here. I think we got to continue to explore. And that's me too, with 68 69, um, you know, direct reports, how do we, how do I stay on top of the curve from a safety perspective so I could keep my team safe. And, and I, and I, I think those are, are some, both from an industry perspective. And for me personally, and professionally or professionally, I would say, I try to try to get better at right. Uh, I'm not my finish. I'm not my, I'm not a finished product I want to be, but how do I get there so I could help, you know, finish my team too. And then they're great. I just, I don't want to just exist and I don't want them to exist. I want them to buy in, have passion know the purpose and the why's. And so just trying to, trying to stay with that, I mean, at the end of the line, it's at the end of the day, it's all about people and the front line is the bottom line. So how do we continue to grow them?
Speaker 1:Yep. I couldn't agree more. All right. Next question. In five years, where do you see the industry? What do you think the biggest changes are that, that you might see in in five years time?
Speaker 2:Uh, so I believe the technology standpoint is going to continue. We're going to continue to try to attract people, but technology is going to create some, there's going to be some creative destruction from a human capital standpoint. Um, the second piece of it, I would say, I think you're going to see continual market consolidation. Um, when I first started, there was a lot of, a lot of independence and the NSS GA they do a great, they track this. I think we're going to continue to see the big publicly traded companies consolidate. I also think you're going to see a more vertical integration, whether it's asphalt ready-mix because at the end of the day, from aggregates perspective, everybody's looking at avenues to move aggregate, right? So whether it's through ready-mix asphalt or paving and construction, I think you're going to continue to see that, uh, I don't think it's going to be a Coke, Pepsi world domination thing, but I do think we are going to continue to see market consolidation and we're going to see less and less mom and pops. And then if the regulatory environment doesn't change, we're not going to see small businesses pop up, like what we have in the past. I just think the permitting issue is going to get harder and harder. And like I said, with the consolidation, we're going to have less and less awesome companies out there doing great things. Um, so that's just my 2 cents on that.
Speaker 1:Love it. Um, if there's one thing that you could tell somebody that's considering a career in construction or bulk materials or aggregates, what would that be
Speaker 2:From personal experience? I would say patients, um, but at the end of the day, I think the best lesson I got, the best mentoring I got was you are in charge of your own career. Right. Um, and I, Darren Mattson the CEO at Roger, she's phenomenal about saying that. And it's, you gotta think he's gotta be pretty comfortable in his own skin to say that to his team, because he doesn't want to lose anybody. He's got some stellar stellar personnel, but you are in charge of your own career. So map it out, realize it's not going to go the way you want have a plan, but put it in pencil because you're going to have to race a few tax.
Speaker 1:Totally fair. And I think that's great. Um, two more questions. The next one is in terms of where you w like the resources and the, and the publications or the outlets that you trust for industry insights, where do you go to find your news about the industry?
Speaker 2:Oh, so I read just like, probably everybody else does in the aggregate side of it, pit and quarry, there's a bunch of Marine publications that help you with the Riverside of it. Um, in SSGA without a doubt, I'm actively involved in it. I think what, uh, Mike Johnson and that team does on our behalf is phenomenal. Um, you have a ARPA, they, they have some publications that help with really the road building transportation side of it. But I think you could have all that stuff. I think you've got to have the desire to consume it, right. And you, it was one of those things. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink there out there. You can get them delivered, you know, articles to your house. Um, but I would say the biggest thing is, as you're coming up, don't ever turn down anybody to be in your network because you could pick up a phone and call somebody. I could talk to somebody, my Texas, or Arkansas or California, and says, Hey, what's going on there? What are you hearing? Uh, that happens a good bit. So, uh, be open to growing your network because I truly do believe, although it doesn't always count toward financial gain, your network is your net worth, whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1:Absolutely. All right. And final question before we wrap up is if you could see someone interviewed on this podcast, who would it be and why?
Speaker 2:Uh, Brandon Lindsey at Hoopa grading over in Charlotte, North Carolina, he also has a podcast. I have a lot of respect from Brandon, uh, in the aggregate space, but what I think, how he's been able to turn it, he also has the dream on three foundation, which I think is wonderful. That foundation that gives, um, give young people opportunities to meet athletes and kind of do a Make-A-Wish type. I think, I think somebody like that, who's not only a steward of their company, a steward of the industry, but a steward of a bigger picture. Uh, I think that's pretty special. And, and, um, there's a couple other folks, I think, uh, I'd like to see a, where are they now? I'm a huge fan of, uh, former CEO at Martin Marriott. Steve Zelnick, uh, he, I know they did a, where are they now and quarry on a recently, but I think it'd be, I think he'd get a kick out of this podcasting. Um, so there was just this two off the top of my head that I think would prove, um, some value for the end user.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Love it. Well, I'm really appreciative of you taking the time out to chat with us today. Um, I know our listeners will be really excited to hear all that we've gone through today. Um, if there's any parting words you want to say, here's, here's an opportunity for you, but we really, we really do appreciate you coming on today.
Speaker 2:And Elizabeth I'm honored and humbled. I would say a message to people that don't really know what we do or how to get into it. Um, just ha have a desire to learn, and you could go anywhere. You want to go, whether it's aggregates asphalt, ready-mix paving and construction construction in general, I just think have a willingness to be open, to learn and recognize that whatever you think your timeline is, uh, look an opportunity will dictate some of that. So it's just, uh, that that would be what I would leave it with for all the viewers.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed hearing from Jason. As much as I enjoy talking with him, clearly, the industry is facing some very real challenges. The labor shortages aren't going to go away overnight ends to echo Jason's thoughts. There needs to be a concerted effort to reach out to the general public and the next generation to let them know how great the industry is. So much of what makes this industry great is the people you hear it from everyone. People stay in this business for their entire career because of the people that make it great. If you're in a position to help or mentor or expose new people to the industry, do so share the great things that your team's doing, share the projects you're working on and the impact they have on your community. If you're getting your oil change next week, and someone asks you, Hey, what's that under the truck, take the few minutes like Jason, to educate them. You never know the impact that it will have while some things do take time to get back on track. Like the labor issues. Other things are moving very quickly. Technology is one of the areas that is progressing rapidly, and it seems like every day there's a new tool available to help save time or money for a different area of the business. As Jason says, he wouldn't know there was a problem for some areas of the business, unless his team speaks up. So if you're in a role similar to Jason proactively have those conversations with your team, it's coming up on the end of the year. That's a great time to build in real conversations with your team and make it clear that there won't be negative consequences for voicing any concerns that they have. If you're one of those people that has hesitated talking to your boss or your GM about technology that might be able to help you, maybe now's that time. Every leadership team is different. So you've got to think about your business, your team, and the best way to approach them, but it can't hurt to voice your concerns as long as you do so in a way that makes it very clear that you're trying to help the business and help yourself perform your job even better. If you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to subscribe. So you're notified of new episodes, and don't forget to leave us a review until next week. This is your host Elizabeth signing off.