Get A Load Of This
Get A Load Of This
2: Facing Facts: What the Infrastructure Bill Means for the Aggregate Industry
Michele Stanley, Vice President of Government and Regulatory Affairs with the National Stone, Sand, and Gravel Association (NSSGA), has 17 years of experience and is a leader when it comes to advocating for the interests of the aggregate industry.
In today's episode, we discuss the upcoming infrastructure bill and the ultimate impact it will have on the construction industry. From what is happening in Washington today, to how the industry will be able to plan for the years ahead - we break down the top concerns and impacts of the infrastructure bill.
Tune in to find out Michele’s expert take on what is happening in Washington.
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Speaker 2:Welcome to get a load of this. This is your host Elizabeth Scholz. And today we are speaking with Michelle Stanley, the VP of government and regulatory affairs with the national stone, sand and gravel association with over 17 years of experience in public policy and political advocacy. She's the perfect person to help us break down the impacts of the infrastructure bill on the construction industry. Today, we're joined by Michelle Stanley from the national stone, sand and gravel association. Michelle, it's a pleasure to have you on, um, I'd love for you to give a quick introduction about who you are and what your focus is at NSS GA, um, for our audience.
Speaker 3:Great, thank you, Elizabeth. Uh, yes, I'm the vice president of government and regulatory affairs for NSS GA. Um, then with the association for about six years have been doing policy, mainly transportation, but also some of our natural resource issues. Um, some of our labor, you know,[inaudible] issues as they relate to Capitol hill. Um, I started out as a, what we call a lime lobbyist, basically just, um, building relationships with staff members and members of Congress. Um, and now I oversee our, our legislative and regulatory team. So I kind of have an overview of all of the issues now.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to have you on today. We love the expertise that you have in the industry and are really excited. I think this is a hot topic for a lot of our listeners and something that's really impactful for the organization. So we're excited for you to be able to share your point of view on everything and so jumping right in, you know, you're a leader and an advocate for the industry. What are the biggest hopes that you have, um, for what will come out of an infrastructure bill, both from the side of Washington, but also from key players in the construction and aggregate industry
Speaker 3:Mean men. Number one hope is that it actually is a hard infrastructure bill, um, that it, you know, that it is separate from some of the human human or soft infrastructure that the administration has been talking about. You know, the original package that was, that was put out there by president Biden, kind of included all of the above. Um, so we have been pleasantly surprised to see that they have now pulled out some of the more traditional infrastructure pieces. And I guess our hope is just that they stayed down that path. Um, and that, that is how they continue to move forward.
Speaker 2:That's a great point. And that's, that's one of the other things that I was a little bit curious about, you know, we've seen, you know, infrastructure bills in the past, how has this infrastructure bill changed? Because like you've said, there have been discussions about other things getting looped into this. Um, how has that differed from what you've seen in the past?
Speaker 3:I mean, in the past, it's usually, you know, each kind of segment of the, of the industry has their own separate bills. So there'll be a surface bill. There'll be a water infrastructure bill. There'll be an airport's bill, there'll be a pipelines bill. Um, and this is really the first time that we're seeing them talk about it as one big package and not separate things moving in at different times in different directions. What
Speaker 2:Do you think the implications of that will be for the industry and certainly in particular, the aggregates industry, will that make an impact for people that are doing this work day to day, or will it kind of be a, a business as usual on the other side of this? Um, for them,
Speaker 3:I mean, I think down the road, it will be impactful. I mean, it's not going to be one of those things that you see kind of a turn of a switch and there'll be a bunch of jobs let all at once, you know, the money will slowly be out the, you know, put out the door by states and by, um, localities. So, you know, I think it's going to be probably a little bit more gradual of, of a change. Um, and from what we're hearing from members, you know, the workforce issue seems to be at the top of their mind. And so, you know, we're really hoping that that, that trickle out of money helps the industry, um, prepare workforce wise for, for those lettings and for that money going out.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. That's a great point. I think it's, it's so important to note that the two do go hand in hand and that is a huge concern for the industry right now from your members. What are some of the other top concerns that you've been hearing that they have as they're thinking about, you know, what the potentials are coming out of this infrastructure bill aside from, you know, the labor side of things.
Speaker 3:I mean, we're hearing a lot of questions about how it's going to be paid for, um, you know, is it going to be paid for how the president wanted with, with some rollbacks to the corporate tax and to some of the other tax changes from 2017? Um, will it be any user fee increases, um, which doesn't sound like that's going to be what they decide to go with, just because of the presidents, um, the president's comments around not wanting to raise taxes on those, that rate or that make more than$400,000. Um, so I think that really is going to make it difficult for them to come up with, with ways to pay for it. I mean, really what we're hearing is that it's kind of, um, uh, moving around of ducks on the Titanic. If you will, that, you know, they're going to pull some money from this government program. That's not spending it and put it over in this pot of money. Um, which, you know, we think is unfortunate because the program has historically been a user fee or user fee funded program. And once we start going away from that and injecting whether it's more general fund money or whether we end up being, you know, paid for by regular, yearly appropriations, um, that would be really detrimental to, to the states and how they, how they left their, their project to year to year
Speaker 2:Or some of our listeners that maybe aren't quite as well versed. How, how do you see that being detrimental? What are the potential implications of that?
Speaker 3:It just doesn't give states the ability to plan. So when you, when you do it in a, five-year a five-year bill, you're, they're able to know how much money they're going to have each year, because it's almost guaranteed upfront that they'll have at least X amount of money coming through the formulas and through the program. Um, whereas if they wait and they do it through discretionary spending, which is what they call it on Capitol hill, um, through the yearly appropriations process, you wouldn't know until September 30 of the year before as to how much money you're going to be getting. So that just the uncertainty that that gives states, um, it's just like doing an extension really. Um, the states really have no certainty as to how much money they're going to get. And then that ends up making them be more on the conservative side with, are they going to do new projects? Are they just going to, um, fill potholes instead of building new, you know, new roads from the ground up?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And I mean, not only from a project planning standpoint, from a kind of workforce allocation standpoint, too, knowing that there are those concerns and those issues, I mean, it's not day one that you can get somebody have the funds to find somebody to do the work, hire them, get them trained up, make sure that they're ready to be safe on the job site. No, the task at hand like that all takes time. And so if you're not able to plan accordingly, even if you do get this funding, the funding for it, you may not be able to execute on that the way that you want to
Speaker 3:Exactly effectively. I mean, it, you wouldn't be able to effectively spend that money, um, really anyway.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And it's not, you know, uh, it's not a minuscule amount of money on the table here, right? This is, these are larger dollars that we're talking about for each state. Um, and you know, there's a lot of people that depend on this, whether they're in the industry or not the work that's being done here has a huge impact on the general population. I think, you know, that's one of the things that I love being in the D in this industry to get to see is, you know, everybody that I talk with, everybody that I've worked with is super passionate, wants to do a great job, wants to make sure that everything is top quality. And if you build the framework and you build the structure to allow them to shine, they're going to, um, so that's why I think, you know, this bill is so impactful in the way that it's going to get, you know, disburse the way it's going to get discussed the way we're talking about it. It's very easy to see that from a macro level, but when you come down to the micro, this is really, you know, what is allowing people to do their jobs, to the best of their ability.
Speaker 3:Exactly. And I mean, we, even, when we talk about it on Capitol hill, um, it's the trickle down effect also, right? So it's, it's not just the jobs at an aggregate, um, at an aggregate facility or those that are on the road actually laying down the pavements. It's also the restaurants where all those folks are eating at it's the gas stations where they get gas, it's, you know, um, it, it trickles down and expands throughout the community. And so the, the more of a framework, like you said, that can be put together ahead of time, um, in order to give all of the communities a way to capitalize on it. Really.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I know I've been listening into not all of them, unfortunately, have I been able to make, but you've done some great kind of webinars series for your members having key people that are involved in this process, come in and talk and address some concerns. Um, there's two things that I have been kind of wanting to ask you, um, coming out of those sessions, number one, um, there seems to be certain infrastructure projects around the country that have gotten some major attention over the course of time, a few bridges that are having some troubles in places that have really gained, you know, some national kind of spotlight. Um, do you think that one, those particular projects are different for a certain reason or are garnering that attention for a certain reason? Or do you think that they're just really illustrative of kind of what's happening across the board? And these happened to be good examples of what this infrastructure bill will impact?
Speaker 3:I think they're kind of anomalies, to be honest. Um, most of them are in locations that go across multiple Metro areas and multiple states. And so when you have that happen, you know, each state does things very differently. Um, I always, it makes me think of, um, Senator Inhofe voice shows this picture from 1940 something before the interstate was, was made and it's, you know, a paved road in, um, in Oklahoma, but then it goes to the border with Kansas and it turns into a dirt road because each state, you know, didn't have the same priorities. Um, and I think there's a little bit of that going on in some of these situations. Um, and I, I hate, I hate to say this, but in some situations it's also political. Um, you know, the, the bridge that I think you're referring to, you know, has the, the Republican leader as the, you know, the party leader in the state. And so that throws, you know, throws interest in a wrench into the process, um, as well as the way that that states apply for, um, discretionary money. And, um, they're just, you know, a lot of different reasons why some of those projects are, you know, are being highlighted.
Speaker 2:Yup. I think that's totally valid. Um, one of the things that has been good to see is some of the bi-partisan efforts that have kind of gone alongside, uh, the infrastructure bill and, and planning and getting to the point of a framework. And there've been a couple of different groups that have been involved in some of those bipartisan talks. Um, can you break down some of those groups, you know, there's a lot of names tossed about in the news, the stories, and I think sometimes it can be confusing for people to understand who is working on what, who is supporting what cause can you break down the, the few key groups that you've been working with, um, so that our audience has a better understanding of who's really working on building towards this, this ultimate bill.
Speaker 3:Sure. So I can take a stab at that. Um, the, I mean, the first kind of big group that you saw trying to negotiate with the president was led by Senator capita. Um, and it was the ranking members of a bunch of the committees or jurisdiction. So, um, they didn't have a name, I don't think, but it was, it was kind of the infrastructure ranking member, um, coalition that was, that was going up to the white house and, and trying to negotiate on things. So that was kind of the first like big group that you saw. Um, and then the second, the second group was really a combination of the house and the Senate folks. So it was once again the ranking members, but, um, there were some, some house chairman and house ranking members that were a part of that. Um, and then there's the problem solvers, which is a, um, a moderate group that is formed in, that has formed in the house. Um, it's being led right now by Brian Fitzpatrick from Pennsylvania. Who's the Republican, and then Josh Gottheimer, who's from New Jersey, who's the Democrat. Um, and they really, I think it's a phenomenal, uh, caucus. Um, you can only come on if you bring someone from the other party with you. And so they're, they're a group of 58 house members. Um, and with the margins and the house being so close, I think the DMS only have like a five seat majority right now. Um, if they vote for, or against a bill, they can take it down on the house floor. So, um, they, they had gone up in a group of them, had met with the president also. And then of course there was this last group that they were calling the G 21. I think it started out as like the G five or the G 10. And now it's kind of 21. Um, but it's the group of bipartisan senators who have now signed off on the bipartisan framework infrastructure framework. Um, and, and the problem solvers are now backing that framework as well. So you really see, I would say the moderate middle of the road, um, senators and house members who are getting behind this framework to try to push it across the finish line.
Speaker 2:Perfect. I think you did a great job certainly better than I would have recapping all of that. So we appreciate that. Um, and then honestly, you know, one of my, kind of last questions for you, as I know you kind of talked about what some of your, your hopes are coming out of this, but for construction professionals, um, as they're thinking about, you know, how can they prepare for this upcoming infrastructure bill? Are there things they can be doing now to kind of get in the right mindset or start thinking about planning for different outcomes? Um, or is it really, do you think something that they're just going to have to wait and see and figure out where the funding comes from in order for them to really be able to plan?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be hard to plan at this stage. It's still feels fairly early. Um, I mean, I know that that it's been being talked about since the beginning of the year. Um, but things have really just ramped up in the last couple of weeks. And I was actually chatting with somebody earlier today kind of trying to explain that like things on the hill don't happen at lightning speed. Um, and, and that's for a reason, right? Like you don't, you don't want a bad policy bill to be easily made law. So there's a reason that, that things take a little bit of time and this isn't going to happen, you know, at the snap of a finger. So there will be a little bit of a process that that needs to happen before it becomes before it even becomes a policy package in order for it to come to the floor. So I would say, you know, give it the summer. Um, and once things kind of start to come together and be a little bit more, um, I'll use the pun concrete, uh, and we probably can, can circle back and see what the best step the best next step is. Um, but the other thing I would add is, is honestly getting involved with advocacy and getting engaged in whether it's your business, your local communities, your national association, whatever it is that you're involved with. Um, having that, that advocacy engagement with your members of Congress, um, is really important. And letting them know how this will positively affect your home life, your job itself, and really your future. Um, all of those things are really important for them to hear because it's one thing for me to go to the hill and talk about the industry. Um, but it's another, for those of you that are on the ground, doing it day in and day out for you to tell your story. Um, members of Congress actually really love hearing that. Um, and it really does move the needle. So, you know, like I said, whether it's you making a phone call or sending an email on your own or doing a grassroots, you know, email push that NSS GA might be doing or that your company might be doing or whatever it is, um, you know, don't think lightly on, on those advocacy touches because they, they really do make a difference in the end goal. So that would kind of be my last thing that I, that I folks with, I guess
Speaker 2:I think that's great. I think both of the, the kind of practice and patience is key, um, knowing that that will hopefully ultimately end up netting a better result at the end. And then also getting involved if people are interested in getting involved in NSS GA what's the best way for them to go about that.
Speaker 3:Um, if they would visit our new website, we actually have a new, um, easy to use streamlined flashy, new website, it's just NSS ga.org, and you can go there and there's actually a tab at the top that says get involved. Um, and it'll give you a bunch of different options, whether you want to get involved with our committees, or if you want to know what our most recent grassroots email campaign is, um, that should all be, be able to be found there.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Thank you. So that's NSS ga.org.
Speaker 3:Yep, exactly. Perfect.
Speaker 2:And finally, before we let you go, Michelle, we do this with each of our guests. There's a couple of, kind of more rapid fire questions that I'll run through with you. Um, the first being, if you could pick anyone to see interviewed on this podcast, would it be
Speaker 3:Ord NY?
Speaker 2:Perfect. Um, has there been someone in the industry that's acted as a mentor to you?
Speaker 3:Um, I would probably say, uh, Janet, Kevin Oakey with Vulcan. Um, I've known her for a long time when she was in Washington DC and she's really helped me, um, professionally, um, you know, guiding me through the construction industry and, and to where I am now. Awesome.
Speaker 2:Uh, what keeps you in the construction industry?
Speaker 3:I love the people, um, the members, the, uh, you know, all of you guys out there. I mean, it's, it's really great to have such an enthusiastic and engaged membership. And I also really enjoy that. What we do is tangible, right. You can see roads being paved, you can see rock being crushed. Um, and, and I, you know, I really enjoy seeing that, that physical aspect. Awesome.
Speaker 2:Uh, what's the one piece of technology that you can't live without?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, probably probably my cell phone.
Speaker 2:I think that's a fair one. Um, and then finally, if you could automate one part of your job, what
Speaker 3:Would that be? Replying to emails,
Speaker 4:Totally valid,
Speaker 2:A vacation responder at all times with thoughtful content. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We've really appreciated you taking time out of your busy schedule to chat with us. Um, and we certainly look forward to seeing more of what's to come with the infrastructure bill, a huge thank you to Michelle and NSS GA for letting us borrow her today. It's clear the infrastructure bill has a huge impact on the construction industry. Getting involved is the best way to make sure your voice is heard. And your are answered head over to NSS ga.org, or reach out to your local association to get started. We hope this episode helped to bring some light to key players involved, and the real impacts the decisions being made right now will have on the industry for years to come. The next episode of season one will be out next week. So please be sure to tune in and drop a review. If you found this episode interesting, this is your host Elizabeth signing off until next week.
Speaker 1:[inaudible].